Ordinary People (1980) ft. Frank Mandosa

Guest:

• Frank Mandosa

  • Host of Reels of Cinema podcast, co-host of Movies across the Pod

  • https://linktr.ee/reelsofcinema; www.frankmandosa.weebly.com

  • Previously on The Sixth Sense, Sunset Boulevard (1950) Revisit

Cast:

• Robert Redford, Director

• Alvin Sargent, Writer

• John Bailey, Cinematography

• Marvin Hamlisch, Music

• Donald Sutherland as Calvin Jarrett

• Mary Tyler Moore as Beth Jarrett

• Judd Hirsch as Tyrone C. Berger

• Timothy Hutton as Conrad Jarrett

• Elizabeth McGovern as Jeannine Pratt

• M. Emmet Walsh as Salan

• Dinah Manoff as Karen Aldrich

• Fredric Lehne as Joe Lazenby

Background:

• Based on the book of the same name, Ordinary People was released on September 19, 1980.

• The film was a box-office success, grossing $54.8 million in the United States and Canada and approximately $36 million overseas for a worldwide gross of $90 million and finishing #11 at the worldwide box-office for 1980.

• The film drew rave critical reviews and was eventually nominated for 6 Oscars: Best Actress (Mary Tyler Moore) and Supporting Actor (Hirsch) while winning Best Picture, Director (Redford), Adapted Screenplay (Sargent), and Supporting Actor (Hutton).

• Ordinary People currently holds an 89% among critics on RT, a 86 score on Metacritic, and a 4/5 on Letterboxd.

What is this movie about?/Elevator Pitch: Allowing ourselves grace and forgiveness, forgiving others when they cannot be what we want them to be, seeing our parents for who they really are, and trying to heal while grieving.

Plot Summary: Ordinary People is a powerful drama about a family torn apart by loss. The Jarretts seem like a perfect upper-class family, but the death of their oldest son, Buck, leaves deep scars. Conrad, the younger son (Timothy Hutton), struggles with guilt and depression, leading to a suicide attempt. With the help of psychiatrist Dr. Berger (Judd Hirsch), he slowly begins to face his painful emotions and heal.

Conrad’s father, Calvin (Donald Sutherland), wants to connect and support him, but his mother, Beth (Mary Tyler Moore), cannot show her feelings and insists on keeping up appearances. This emotional distance pushes Conrad away, creating tension in her and Calvin's marriage. Ultimately, the family must confront the truth that love and healing require honesty, not denial.

Did You Know:

• Gene Hackman was originally cast as Calvin Jarrett but then later dropped out when he and the studio could not come to a financial agreement. A then-unknown Michael J. Fox, who had just moved to Los Angeles to pursue an acting career, auditioned for the role of Conrad Jarrett but reportedly did not impress Redford, who flossed his teeth during Fox's audition. Natalie Wood was also considered for the role of Beth.

• Elizabeth McGovern was a student at Juilliard during filming. The school permitted her to do the film on the condition that she leave for Chicago each Friday night and return on Sunday, filming only on Saturdays. It was the first time Juilliard had ever permitted a student to make a film during a school term.

• In an Entertainment Weekly article, Timothy Hutton said Robert Redford deliberately told cast and crew to play into his inexperience and resist helping him during filming so that he would feel as isolated and unsupported as his character.

• Director Robert Redford and screenwriter Alvin Sargent were faithful to Judith Guest's novel, particularly in their handling of the character Beth (Mary Tyler Moore). Guest was deliberately vague as to Beth's approach and management of grief, and this was achieved by shuttling the book's chapters back and forth between the viewpoints of Calvin and Conrad. No chapters are seen through Beth's eyes; the character exists only as she is seen by others, which emphasizes her increasingly ambiguous emotions and motives. In this way, Guest was able to drive home the point of her book, that no two people grieve in the same way, and that families divide because they cannot recognize each other's grieving mechanisms.

• Author Judith Guest shared her feelings about the character Beth in an op-ed about the making of the movie: At one point I confided to (Robert Redford) my many frustrations with the character of Beth, the mother. "I don't see her as a villain," I said. "But people seem to hate her. I have a lot of sympathy for her, and yet I wasn't able to get that across. Some characters are like poems: you never finish them, you just abandon them in despair." He told me, "I see how you as the author might feel like that, but for me, and for the purposes of this movie, I think she works just fine." So I quit worrying about her.

• Judith Guest's novel, Ordinary People, is on the list of the most banned books in school libraries. With a scene depicting two teens losing their virginity, frank discussion of suicide, and graphic language, it remains very controversial in schools. In fact, this book was the 52nd most challenged book in schools and libraries from 1990 to 1999, narrowly beating out #53, American Psycho.

Best Performance: Mary Tyler Moore (Beth)/Judd Hirsch (Berger)/Timothy Hutton (Conrad)

Best Secondary Performance: Donald Sutherland (Calvin)/Mary Tyler Moore (Beth)/Judd Hirsch (Berger)

Most Charismatic Award: Timothy Hutton (Conrad)/Donald Sutherland (Calvin)/Dinah Manoff (Karen)

Best Scene:

• Swim Coach

• Trig

• Meeting w/ Karen

• Christmas Tree

• Funeral Attire

• Karen

• Late Night Chat

• Conrad and Calvin

Favorite Scene: Conrad and Calvin/Karen

Most Indelible Moment: Conrad and Calvin/French Toast

In Memorium:

• Rick Davies, 81, English musician (Supertramp), and songwriter ("Bloody Well Right", "Goodbye Stranger")

• Stuart Craig, 83, English production designer (Gandhi, Dangerous Liasons, The English Patient, the entire Harry Potter and Fantastic Beasts series) 3x Oscar winner.

• Derry Power, 90, Irish actor (Super Gran, Educating Rita, Far and Away)

• Mark Volman, 78, American musician (co-founded The Turtles, played with Flo & Eddie and The Mothers of Invention)

• Stephen Mendillo, 84, American actor (Slap Shot, Broadcast News, Lone Star)

Best Lines/Funniest Lines:

Calvin "Cal" Jarrett: We would have been all right if there hadn't been any... mess. But you can't handle mess. You need everything neat and easy.

Conrad "Con" Jarrett: You're the doctor.

Dr. Berger: Listen, don't take refuge in one-liners like "you're the doctor". Okay? Because that pisses me off.

Calvin "Cal" Jarrett: Well, don't admire people too much. They'll disappoint you sometimes.

Dr. Berger: Feelings are scary. And sometimes they're painful. And if you can't feel pain, then you're not gonna feel anything else, either. You know what I'm saying?

Conrad "Con" Jarrett: Uh... I don't know. It was like... falling into a hole. It keeps getting bigger and bigger and you can't escape. All of a sudden, it's inside... and you're the hole. You're trapped. And it's all over. Something like that. It's not really scary... except when you think back on it. 'Cause you know what you were feeling...

Conrad "Con" Jarrett: I can't do this. No, uh-uh. It takes too much energy to get mad.

Dr. Berger: Do you know how much energy it takes to hold it back?

Calvin "Cal" Jarrett: He just wants to know that you don't hate him.

Beth Jarrett: Hate him! How could I hate him? Mothers don't hate their sons! Is that what he told you? You see how you believe everything he tells you? And you can't do the same for me, you can't! GOD I DON'T KNOW WHAT ANYONE WANTS FROM ME ANYMORE!

Calvin "Cal" Jarrett: You are beautiful. And you are unpredictable. But you're so cautious. You're determined, Beth, but you know something? You're not strong. And I don't know if you're really giving. Tell me something. Do you love me? Do you really love me?

Beth Jarrett: I feel the way I've always felt about you.

[pause]

Calvin "Cal" Jarrett: We would have been all right if there hadn't been any... mess. But you can't handle mess. You need everything neat and easy. I don't know. Maybe you can't love anybody. It was so much Buck. When Buck died, it was as if you buried all your love with him, and I don't understand that. I just don't know, I don't... maybe it wasn't even Buck. Maybe it was just you. Maybe, finally, it was the best of you that you buried. But whatever it was... I don't know who you are. And I don't know what we've been playing at. So I was crying. Because I don't know if I love you anymore. And I don't know what I'm going to do without that.

Beth Jarrett: I don't want to see any doctors or counselors. I'm me! This is *my* family. And if we have problems we will solve those problems in the privacy of our own home, not by running to some kind of specialist every time something goes wrong.

Calvin "Cal" Jarrett: Because I've always wondered, in some needling way, what it mattered what I wore. It was crazy that day. We were going to our son's funeral and you were worried about what I wore on my feet. I'm sure it sounds like nothing to you, but it stuck with me and I just wanted... to tell you about it.

Dr. Berger: How long are you going to punish yourself? When are you going to quit?

The Stanley Rubric:

Legacy: 6.83

Impact/Significance: 7.17

Novelty: 8.33

Classic-ness: 8.5

Rewatchability: 4.5

Audience Score: 8.2 (76% Google, 88% RT)

Total: 43.53

Remaining Questions:

• Does Beth ever come back, and do Conrad or Calvin need her to?

• Does Conrad transfer to another school or do he and Calvin move?

Listener Questions:

• Heather Stewart (Question Queen)

  • Donald Sutherland Mt. Rushmore?

  • Who are the best actors turned directors?

  • The ending is considered unsatisfactory to many, what is your take?

• Kieran B (BPC - Best Picture Cast)

  • How does Mary Tyler Moore’s performance stack up against some of the other Leading Female Performances you have covered?